10. Dhammadesanāya appossukkapañho

10."Bhante nāgasena, tumhe bhaṇatha 'tathāgatena catūhi ca asaṅkhyeyyehi kappānaṃ satasahassena ca etthantare sabbaññutañāṇaṃ paripācitaṃ mahato janakāyassa samuddharaṇāyā'ti.

King Milinda said: “Revered Nāgasena, you say: “The Tathāgata, through four incalculables and a hundred thousand aeons, brought his omniscient knowledge to perfection for the sake of pulling out great masses of people from saṃsāra.’

‘Venerable Nāgasena, your people say: “The Tathāgata gradually, through millions of years, through aeon after aeon, brought his omniscient wisdom to perfection for the sake of the salvation of the great masses of the people.”

Почтенный Нагасена, вы утверждаете: «Татхагата за четыре несчетности кальп и еще сотню тысяч кальп взрастил свое всеведущее знание, чтобы вызволить654 великое множество людей»655.

Puna ca 'sabbaññutaṃ pattassa appossukkatāya cittaṃ nami, no dhammadesanāyā'ti.

But on the other hand you say: “Just after he attained to omniscience, his mind inclined to little effort and not to teach the Dhamma.’124

‘But on the other hand (they say): “Just after he had attained to omniscience his heart inclined, not to the proclamation of the Truth, but to rest in peace.”

И еще: «Обретя всеведение, он был склонен к бездеятельности, а не к проповеди Учения»656.

"Yathā nāma, bhante nāgasena, issāso vā issāsantevāsī vā bahuke divase saṅgāmatthāya upāsanaṃ sikkhitvā sampatte mahāyuddhe osakkeyya, evameva kho, bhante nāgasena, tathāgatena catūhi ca asaṅkhyeyyehi kappānaṃ satasahassena ca etthantare sabbaññutañāṇaṃ paripācetvā mahato janakāyassa samuddharaṇāya sabbaññutaṃ pattena dhammadesanāya osakkitaṃ.

As, revered Nāgasena, an archer or his pupil who had trained for many days in practice for the sake of fighting might hesitate when the day of the great battle had come,

‘So that, Nāgasena, just as if an archer, or an archer’s pupil, who had practised archery for many days with the object of fighting, should, when the day of the great battle had come, draw back—just so did the Tathāgata, who through countless ages had gradually matured his omniscience for the sake of bringing safe to the shore (of salvation) the great masses of the people, turn back, on the day when that omniscience had been reached, from proclaiming the Truth.

Словно бы стрелок из лука или ученик стрелка, о почтенный Нагасена, много дней прилежно учился бы владеть оружием, битвы бы дождался – и тут оплошал; вот так же точно, почтенный Нагасена, и Татхагата за четыре несчетности кальп и еще сотню тысяч кальп взрастил свое всеведущее знание, чтобы вызволить великое множество людей, обрел всеведение, а с проповедью Учения оплошал.

"Yathā vā pana, bhante nāgasena, mallo vā mallantevāsī vā bahuke divase nibbuddhaṃ sikkhitvā sampatte mallayuddhe osakkeyya, evameva kho, bhante nāgasena, tathāgatena catūhi ca asaṅkhyeyyehi kappānaṃ satasahassena ca etthantare sabbaññutañāṇaṃ paripācetvā mahato janakāyassa samuddharaṇāya sabbaññutaṃ pattena dhammadesanāya osakkitaṃ.

or as a wrestler or his pupil who had trained for many days in wrestling might hesitate when the day of the wrestling match had come, even so the Tathāgata, through four incalculables and a hundred thousand aeons, brought his omniscient knowledge to perfection for the sake of pulling out great masses of people from saṃsāra, yet, when he had attained to omniscience, he hesitated to teach the Dhamma.

just as if a wrestler who through many days had practised wrestling should, when the day of the wrestling match had come, draw back—just so did the Tathāgata, who through countless ages had gradually matured his omniscience for the sake of bringing safe to the shore (of salvation) the great masses of the people, turn back, on the day when that omniscience had been reached, from proclaiming the Truth.

Словно бы борец или ученик борца, о почтенный Нагасена, много дней усердно упражнялся бы, дождался бы настоящей борьбы – и тут оплошал; вот точно так же, почтенный Нагасена, и Татхагата за четыре несчетности кальп и еще сотню тысяч кальп взрастил свое всеведущее знание, чтобы вызволить великое множество людей, обрел всеведение, а с проповедью Учения оплошал.

"Kiṃ nu kho, bhante nāgasena, tathāgatena bhayā osakkitaṃ, udāhu apākaṭatāya osakkitaṃ, udāhu dubbalatāya osakkitaṃ, udāhu asabbaññutāya osakkitaṃ, kiṃ tattha kāraṇaṃ, iṅgha me tvaṃ kāraṇaṃ brūhi kaṅkhāvitaraṇāya.

Now, revered Nāgasena, was it because of fear that the Tathāgata hesitated, or was it because of unclarity, or was it from weakness, or was it because he had not, after all, attained to omniscience? What was the reason for that? Please tell me the reason so as to remove my doubts.

‘Now was it from fear, Nāgasena, that the Tathāgata drew back, or was it from inability to preach, or was it from weakness, or was it because he had not, after all, attained to omniscience? What was the reason of this? Tell me, I pray, the reason, that my doubts may be removed.

Что же, почтенный Нагасена, Татхагата от страха оплошал? Из-за неизвестности оплошал? От бессилия оплошал? Всеведением не обладая, оплошал? В чем причина здесь? Назови же мне причину, избавь меня от сомнений.

Yadi, bhante nāgasena, tathāgatena catūhi ca asaṅkhyeyyehi kappānaṃ satasahassena ca etthantare sabbaññutañāṇaṃ paripācitaṃ mahato janakāyassa samuddharaṇāya, tena hi 'sabbaññutaṃ pattassa appossukkatāya cittaṃ nami, no dhammadesanāyā'ti yaṃ vacanaṃ, taṃ micchā.

For if for so long a time he had perfected his knowledge for the sake of pulling out great masses of people from saṃsāra, then the statement that he hesitated to teach Dhamma must be wrong.

For if for so long a time he had perfected his wisdom with the object of saving the people, then the statement that he hesitated to announce the Truth must be wrong.

Если, почтенный Нагасена, «Татхагата за четыре несчетности кальп и еще сотню тысяч кальп взрастил свое всеведущее знание, чтобы вызволить великое множество людей», то ложны слова, будто «обретя всеведение, он был склонен к бездеятельности, а не к проповеди Учения».

Yadi sabbaññutaṃ pattassa appossukkatāya cittaṃ nami no dhammadesanāya, tena hi 'tathāgatena catūhi ca asaṅkhyeyyeti kappānaṃ satasahassena ca etthantare sabbaññutañāṇaṃ paripācitaṃ mahato janakāyassa samuddharaṇāyā'ti tampi vacanaṃ micchā.

But if that is true, the other statement must be false.

But if that be true, then the other statement must be false.

Если же, обретя всеведение, он был склонен к бездеятельности, а не к проповеди Учения, то ложны слова, будто «Татхагата за четыре несчетности кальп и еще сотню тысяч кальп взрастил свое всеведущее знание, чтобы вызволить, великое множество людей».

Ayampi ubhato koṭiko pañho gambhīro dunnibbeṭho tavānuppatto, so tayā nibbāhitabbo"ti.

This too is a double-pronged question, deep, difficult to penetrate; it is put to you; it is for you to solve.”

This too is a double-edged problem, now put to you—a problem profound, a knot hard to unravel—which you have to solve.’

Вот еще вопрос обоюдоострый. Тебе он поставлен, тебе его и решать.

"Paripācitañca, mahārāja, tathāgatena catūhi ca asaṅkhyeyyehi kappānaṃ satasahassena ca etthantare sabbaññutañāṇaṃ mahato janakāyassa samuddharaṇāya, pattasabbaññutassa ca appossukkatāya cittaṃ nami, no dhammadesanāya.

“The statements in both the passages you quote, sire, are correct. But when the Tathāgata attained to omniscience his mind inclined to little effort and not to teach the Dhamma

‘The statements in both the passages you quote, O king, are correct.

– Действительно, государь, Татхагата за четыре несчетности кальп и еще за сотню тысяч кальп взрастил свое всеведущее знание, чтобы вызволить великое множество людей. А обретя всеведение, он действительно был склонен к бездеятельности, а не к проповеди Учения.

Tañca pana dhammassa gambhīranipuṇaduddasaduranubodhasukhumaduppaṭivedhataṃ sattānañca ālayārāmataṃ sakkāyadiṭṭhiyā daḷhasuggahitatañca disvā 'kiṃ nu kho, kathaṃ nu kho'ti appossukkatāya cittaṃ nami, no dhammadesanāya, sattānaṃ paṭivedhacintanamānasaṃ yevetaṃ.

because he saw how difficult it was for beings who were delighting in sensual pleasures and tightly grasping the false view of self to penetrate the Dhamma that is deep, subtle, difficult to see, difficult to understand and exquisite. So he wavered at the thought: “Whom shall I teach? What shall I teach? ’ Precisely his intention was that the Dhamma should be penetrated by beings.

But that his heart inclined, not to the preaching of the truth, but to inaction, was because he saw, on the one hand, how profound and abstruse was the Doctrine, how hard to grasp and understand, how subtle, how difficult to penetrate into; and, on the other, how devoted beings are to the satisfaction of their lusts, how firmly possessed by false notions of Individualism. And so (he wavered) at the thought: “Whom shall I teach? And how can I teach him? "—his mind being directed to the idea of the powers of penetration which beings possessed.

Он видел, что Учение это глубокое, искусное, трудноусмотримое, труднообъяснимое, утонченное, труднопостижимое, а людям уютно среди удовольствий и они крепко вцепились в мнения о самости657, и подумал: «Что же делать, как же быть? » – и был склонен к бездеятельности, а не к проповеди Учения. Это было раздумьем: как же пробиться к сердцам людей?

"Yathā, mahārāja, bhisakko sallakatto anekabyādhiparipīḷitaṃ naraṃ upasaṅkamitvā evaṃ cintayati 'kena nu kho upakkamena katamena vā bhesajjena imassa byādhi vūpasameyyā'ti, evameva kho, mahārāja, tathāgatassa sabbakilesabyādhiparipīḷitaṃ janaṃ dhammassa ca gambhīranipuṇaduddasaduranubodhasukhumaduppaṭivedhataṃ disvā 'kiṃ nu kho, kathaṃ nu kho'ti appossukkatāya cittaṃ nami, no dhammadesanāya, sattānaṃ paṭivedhacintanamānasaṃ yevetaṃ.

“As, sire, a physician on approaching a man who is suffering from all kinds of diseases considers thus: “By what means or by what medicine can I allay his disease? ’, even so, sire, the Tathāgata having seen people suffering from all the diseases of the defilements and how difficult it was for them to penetrate the Dhamma that is deep, subtle, difficult to see, difficult to understand and exquisite, wavered at the thought: “Whom shall I teach? What shall I teach? ’ Precisely his intention was that the Dhamma should be penetrated by beings.

‘Just, O king, as an able physician, when called in to a patient suffering from a complication of diseases, might reflect: “What can be the treatment, what the drug, by which this man’s sickness can be allayed? "—just so, O king, when the Tathāgata called to mind how afflicted were the people by all the kinds of malady which arise from sin, and how profound and abstruse was the Doctrine, how subtle, and how difficult to grasp, then at the thought: “Whom can I teach? And how shall I teach him?” did his heart incline rather to inaction than to preaching— his mind being directed to the powers of penetration which beings possessed.

Скажем, государь, врач-исцелитель берется лечить человека, мучимого многими недугами, и раздумывает: «Как подступиться, каким лекарством излечить его болезнь? » Вот точно так же, государь, Татхагата видел, что люди мучимы всяческими недугами-аффектами, что Учение его глубокое, искусное, труднообъяснимое, трудноусмотримое, утонченное, труднопостижимое, и подумал: «Ну что же делать, как же быть? » – и был склонен к бездеятельности, а не к проповеди Учения. Это было раздумьем: как же пробиться к сердцам, людей?

"Yathā, mahārāja, rañño khattiyassa muddhāvasittassa dovārikaanīkaṭṭhapārisajjanegamabhaṭabala [balattha (sī. pī.)] amaccarājaññarājūpajīvine jane disvā evaṃ cittamuppajjeyya 'kiṃ nu kho, kathaṃ nu kho ime saṅgaṇhissāmī'ti, evameva kho, mahārāja, tathāgatassa dhammassa gambhīranipuṇaduddasaduranubodhasukhumaduppaṭivedhataṃ sattānañca ālayārāmataṃ sakkāyadiṭṭhiyā daḷhasuggahitatañca disvā 'kiṃ nu kho, kathaṃ nu kho'ti appossukkatāya cittaṃ nami, no dhammadesanāya, sattānaṃ paṭivedhacintanamānasaṃ yevetaṃ.

‘And just, O king, as a king, of royal blood, an anointed monarch, when he calls to mind the many people who gain their livelihood in dependence on the king—the sentries and the body-guard, the retinue of courtiers, the trading folk, the soldiers and the royal messengers, the ministers and the nobles —might be exercised at the thought: “How now, in what way, shall I be able to conciliate them all? "—just so when the Tathāgata called to mind how profound and abstruse was the Doctrine, how subtle, and how difficult to grasp, and how devoted beings were to the satisfaction of their lusts, how firmly possessed by false notions of Individualism, then at the thought: “Whom shall I teach? And how shall I teach him?” did his heart incline rather to inaction than to preaching—his mind being directed to the powers of penetration which beings possessed.

Или, скажем, государь, смотрит царь-кшатрий, помазанный на престол, на своих часовых, привратников, членов собрания, горожан, наемных слуг, солдат, советников, кшатриев, зависимых от царя людей и думает: «Как же мне быть, что же делать, чтобы сплотить их? » Вот точно так же, государь, Татхагата видел, что Учение это глубокое, искусное, трудноусмотримое, труднообъяснимое, утонченное, труднопостижимое, а что людям уютно среди удовольствий и они крепко вцепились в мнения о самости, и подумал: «Ну что же делать, как же быть? » – и был склонен к бездеятельности, а не к проповеди Учения. Это было раздумьем: как же пробиться к сердцам людей?

"Api ca, mahārāja, sabbesaṃ tathāgatānaṃ dhammatā esā, yaṃ brahmunā āyācitā dhammaṃ desenti.

“Moreover, sire, this is an inherent necessity in all Tathāgatas, that they should teach the Dhamma at the request of Brahmā.

‘And this, too, is an inherent necessity in all Tathāgatas that it should be on the request of Brahmā that they should proclaim the Dhamma.

К тому же, государь, таков закон у всех татхагат: они начинают проповедь, когда их просит Брахма.

Tattha pana kiṃ kāraṇaṃ?

What is the reason for this?

And what is the reason for that?

Причина же этому вот какая:

Ye tena samayena manussā tāpasaparibbājakā samaṇabrāhmaṇā, sabbete brahmadevatā honti brahmagarukā brahmaparāyaṇā, tasmā tassa balavato yasavato ñātassa paññātassa uttarassa accuggatassa onamanena sadevako loko onamissati okappessati adhimuccissatīti iminā ca, mahārāja, kāraṇena tathāgatā brahmunā āyācitā dhammaṃ desenti.

At that time all these people—ascetics and wanderers, recluses and brahmins—were worshippers of Brahmā, reverencing him and relying on him. Therefore at the thought: “The world with the devas will bow down to the Dhamma, feel confidence and faith in it because that one who is so powerful, famed, well known, renowned, high and lofty bows down to it,’ Tathāgatas teach Dhamma at the request of Brahmā.

All men in those times, with the ascetics and the monks, the wandering teachers and the Brahmans, were worshippers of Brahmā, reverers of Brahmā, placed their reliance on Brahmā. And therefore, at the thought: “When so powerful and glorious, so famous and renowned, so high and mighty a one has shown himself inclined (to the Dhamma), then will the whole world of gods and men become inclined to it, hold it fitting, have faith in it"—on this ground, O king, the Tathāgatas preached the Dhamma when requested to do so by Brahmā.

в те времена все бродячие подвижники, все шраманы и брахманы поклонялись Брахме, почитали Брахму, преданны были Брахме. И уж если сам он, сильный, славный, известный, прославленный, великий, возвышенный, если он поклонится, то и весь мир с богами прислушается, поклонится, удостоверится. Вот по такой причине, государь, татхагаты начинают проповедь, когда их просит Брахма.

"Yathā, mahārāja, koci rājā vā rājamahāmatto vā yassa onamati apacitiṃ karoti, balavatarassa tassa onamanena avasesā janatā onamati apacitiṃ karoti, evameva kho, mahārāja, brahme onamite tathāgatānaṃ sadevako loko onamissati, pūjitapūjako mahārāja, loko, tasmā so brahmā sabbesaṃ tathāgatānaṃ āyācati dhammadesanāya, tena ca kāraṇena tathāgatā brahmunā āyācitā dhammaṃ desentī"ti.

As, sire, that which some king or king’s chief minister bows down to or reverences, that will the rest of the people bow down to and reverence because one who is very powerful has bowed down to it, even so, sire, as Brahmā bows down to Tathāgatas, so will the world and devas bow down to them. The world, sire, honours what is honoured. Therefore Brahmā requests all Tathāgatas to teach Dhamma, and for this reason Tathāgatas teach Dhamma at the request of Brahmā.”

For just, O king, as what a sovran or a minister of state shows homage to, or offers worship to, that will the rest of mankind, on The ground of the homage of so powerful a personage, show homage to and worship—just so, O king, when Brahmā had paid homage to the Tathāgatas, so would the whole world of gods and men. For the world, O king, is a reverer of what is revered. And that is why Brahmā asks of all Tathāgatas that they should make known the Doctrine, and why, on so being asked, they make it known.’

Скажем, государь, если царь или сановник царя кому-то поклонится и выкажет почтение, то и прочие люди поклонятся и выкажут почтение, раз уж тот, кто сильнее их, склонился. Вот точно так же, государь, если Брахма склонится, то и весь мир с богами склонится. Кому поклонились – тому и мир поклонится, поэтому всех татхагат начать проповедь побуждает Брахма, поэтому татхагаты начинают проповедовать, когда их просит Брахма658.

"Sādhu, bhante nāgasena, sunibbeṭhito pañho, atibhadrakaṃ veyyākaraṇaṃ, evametaṃ tathā sampaṭicchāmī"ti.

“It is good, revered Nāgasena, well unravelled is the question; the explanation was very learned. So it is, therefore do I accept it.”

‘Very good, Nāgasena! the puzzle has been well unravelled, most able has been your exposition. That is so, and I accept it as you say.’

– Отлично, почтенный Нагасена. Поистине распутан вопрос. Великолепное разъяснение. Да, это так, я с этим согласен.