| пали | N.K.G. Mendis - english
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Rhys Davids T.W. - english
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Парибок А.В. - русский
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7."Bhante nāgasena, bhāsitampetaṃ bhagavatā 'tathāgatassa kho, ānanda, na evaṃ hoti "ahaṃ bhikkhusaṅghaṃ pariharissāmī"'ti vā, "mamuddesiko bhikkhusaṅgho"ti vā'ti.
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King Milinda said: “Revered Nāgasena, this too was said by the Blessed One: ‘Ānanda, it does not occur to a Tathāgata thus: I will lead the Order of monks, or, the Order of monks is dependent on me.’
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‘Venerable Nāgasena, it was said by the Blessed One: “Now the Tathāgata thinks not, Ānanda, that is he who should lead the brotherhood, or that the Order is dependent upon him.”
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Почтенный Нагасена, есть изречение Блаженного: «Татхагата не думает, Ананда, что опекает общину или что учится у него община»461.
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Puna ca metteyyassa bhagavato sabhāvaguṇaṃ paridīpayamānena bhagavatā evaṃ bhaṇitaṃ "so anekasahassaṃ bhikkhusaṅghaṃ pariharissati, seyyathāpi ahaṃ etarahi anekasataṃ bhikkhusaṅghaṃ pariharāmī"ti.
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But, on the other hand, when he was extolling the virtues and nature of the Blessed One Metteyya, he said: ‘He will lead an Order of monks numbering several thousands, even as I now lead an Order of monks numbering several hundreds.’103
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But on the other hand when describing the virtues and the nature of Metteyya, the Blessed One, he said thus: “He will be the leader of a brotherhood several thousands in number, as I am now the leader of a brotherhood several hundreds in number.”
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Описывая же достоинства, по природе присущие блаженному Майтрее, он, напротив, сказал: «Многотысячную общину монахов будет он опекать, так же как я теперь опекаю многосотенную общину монахов»462.
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Yadi, bhante nāgasena, bhagavatā bhaṇitaṃ 'tathāgatassa kho, ānanda, na evaṃ hoti "ahaṃ bhikkhusaṅghaṃ pariharissāmī"ti vā, "mamuddesiko bhikkhusaṅgho"ti vā'ti, tena hi anekasataṃ bhikkhusaṅghaṃ pariharāmīti yaṃ vacanaṃ, taṃ micchā.
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If the first statement is right then the second is wrong.
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If the first statement be right, then the second is wrong.
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Если, почтенный Нагасена, Блаженный сказал: «Татхагата не думает, Ананда, что опекает общину или что учится у него община», то ложны слова: «Я теперь опекаю многосотенную общину монахов».
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Yadi tathāgatena bhaṇitaṃ 'so anekasahassaṃ bhikkhusaṅghaṃ pariharissati, seyyathāpi ahaṃ etarahi anekasataṃ bhikkhusaṅghaṃ pariharāmī'ti, tena hi tathāgatassa kho, ānanda, na evaṃ hoti 'ahaṃ bhikkhusaṅghaṃ pariharissāmī'ti vā, 'mamuddesiko bhikkhusaṅgho'ti vāti tampi vacanaṃ micchā, ayampi ubhato koṭiko pañho tavānuppatto, so tayā nibbāhitabbo"ti.
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If the second statement is right, the first must be false. This too is a double-pronged question; it is put to you; it is for you to solve.”
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If the second passage is right, the first must be false. This too is a double-pointed problem now put to you, and you have to solve it.’
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Если Татхагата сказал: «Я теперь опекаю многосотенную общину монахов», то ложны слова: «Татхагата не думает, Ананда, что опекает общину или что учится у него община». Вот еще вопрос обоюдоострый. Тебе он поставлен, тебе его и решать.
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"Bhāsitampetaṃ, mahārāja, bhagavatā 'tathāgatassa kho, ānanda, na evaṃ hoti "ahaṃ bhikkhusaṅghaṃ pariharissāmī"ti vā, "mamuddesiko bhikkhusaṅgho"ti vā'ti.
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“Sire, you quote both passages correctly.
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‘You quote both passages correctly, O king.
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– Есть, государь, изречение Блаженного: «Татхагата не думает, Ананда, что опекает общину или что учится у него община».
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Puna ca metteyyassāpi bhagavato sabhāvaguṇaṃ paridīpayamānena bhagavatā bhaṇitaṃ 'so anekasahassaṃ bhikkhusaṅghaṃ pariharissati, seyyathāpi ahaṃ etarahi anekasataṃ bhikkhusaṅghaṃ pariharāmī'ti.
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Напротив, описывая достоинства, по природе присущие блаженному Майтрее, он сказал: «Многотысячную общину монахов будет он опекать, так же как я теперь опекаю многосотенную общину монахов».
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Etasmiñca, mahārāja, pañhe eko attho sāvaseso, eko attho niravaseso.
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In this question one meaning is incomplete, one meaning complete.
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But in the dilemma that you put the sense in the one passage is inclusive, in the other it is not.
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То, о чем ты спрашиваешь, государь, в одном смысле условно, в другом смысле безусловно.
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Na, mahārāja, tathāgato parisāya anugāmiko, parisā pana tathāgatassa anugāmikā.
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The Tathāgata, sire, does not conform to the assembly, but the assembly conforms to the Tathāgata.
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It is not the Tathāgata, O king, who seeks after a following, but the followers who seek after him.
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Не Татхагата – последователь своего окружения, государь; напротив, окружение Татхагаты – его последователи.
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Sammuti, mahārāja, esā 'aha'nti 'mamā'ti, na paramattho eso, vigataṃ, mahārāja, tathāgatassa pemaṃ, vigato sineho, 'mayha'ntipi tathāgatassa gahaṇaṃ natthi, upādāya pana avassayo hoti.
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This, sire, is conventional parlance: ‘I,’ ‘mine’; this is not an ultimate meaning. Absent, sire, is affection in a Tathāgata, absent is clinging, and for a Tathāgata there is no seizing hold of anything as ‘mine.’ But there is help for others by cleaving to him.
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It is a mere commonly received opinion, O king, that “This is I,” or “This is mine,” it is not a transcendental truth.
Attachment is a frame of mind put away by the Tathāgata, he has put away clinging, he is free from the delusion that “This is mine,” he lives only to be a help to others.
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А слова «я» и «моё», государь, суть выражения общего мнения, а не высшего смысла. Нет у Татхагаты привязанности, государь, нет пристрастия, не цепляется Татхагата за «моё», но при необходимости пользуется этим выражением.
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"Yathā, mahārāja, pathavī bhūmaṭṭhānaṃ sattānaṃ patiṭṭhā hoti upassayaṃ, pathaviṭṭhā cete sattā, na ca mahāpathaviyā 'mayhete'ti apekkhā hoti, evameva kho, mahārāja, tathāgato sabbasattānaṃ patiṭṭhā hoti upassayaṃ, tathāgataṭṭhā [tathāgatapatiṭṭhā eva (sī.)] cete sattā, na ca tathāgatassa 'mayhete'ti apekkhā hoti.
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As, sire, the earth is the support of beings who are based on the ground and is their home, yet the great earth has no longings such as: ‘These are mine,’ even so, the Tathāgata is the support of all beings and is their home, yet the Tathāgata has no longings such as: ‘These are mine.’
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Just as the earth, O king, is a support to the beings in the world, and an asylum to them, and they depend upon it, but the broad earth has no longing after them in the idea that “These belong to me"—just so is the Tathāgata a support and an asylum to all beings, but has no longing after them in the idea that “These belong to me.”
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Скажем, государь, земля для живых, населяющих сушу, есть оплот и прибежище, на землю живые опираются. Но у земли нет оглядки на них как на «своих». Вот точно так же, государь, Татхагата для всех живых – оплот и прибежище, на Татхагату все живые опираются, но у него нет оглядки на них как на «своих».
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Yathā vā pana, mahārāja, mahatimahāmegho abhivassanto tiṇarukkhapasumanussānaṃ vuḍḍhiṃ deti santatiṃ anupāleti.
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Or as a massive rain-cloud that is raining heavily gives growth to grass, trees, cattle and men and maintains their continuity,
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And just as a mighty rain cloud, O king, pours out its rain, and gives nourishment to grass and trees, to cattle and to men, and maintains the lineage thereof,
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Или, скажем, государь, полная влаги туча проливается на землю – травам, деревьям, зверям и людям на процветание, племя их умножает,
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Vuṭṭhūpajīvino cete sattā sabbe, na ca mahāmeghassa 'mayhete'ti apekkhā hoti.
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and though they all subsist by rain, yet the great cloud has no longings such as: ‘These are mine,’
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and all these creatures depend for their livelihood upon its rain, but the cloud has no feelings of longing in the idea that “These are mine"—
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и от дождя зависят в этом все живые до единого; но у тучи нет оглядки на них как на «своих».
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Evameva kho, mahārāja, tathāgato sabbasattānaṃ kusaladhamme janeti anupāleti, satthūpajīvino cete sattā sabbe, na ca tathāgatassa 'mayhete'ti apekkhā hoti.
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even so, sire, the Tathāgata generates and maintains wholesome mental states for all beings, and though all these beings subsist by the Teacher, yet the Tathāgata has no longings such as: ‘These are mine.’
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just so does the Tathāgata give all beings to know what are good qualities and maintains them in goodness, and all beings have their life in him, but the Tathāgata has no feelings of longing in the idea that “These are mine.”
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Вот точно так же, государь, Татхагата во всех живых благие дхармы порождает и умножает, и от Учителя зависят в этом все живые до единого; но у Татхагаты нет оглядки на них как на «своих», и
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Taṃ kissa hetu?
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What is the reason for this?
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And why is it so?
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потому это так,
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Attānudiṭṭhiyā pahīnattā"ti.
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It is due to his having got rid of wrong view of self.”
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Because of his having abandoned all self-regard.’
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что он оставил все мнения о самости.
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"Sādhu, bhante nāgasena, sunibbeṭhito pañho bahuvidhehi kāraṇehi, gambhīro uttānīkato, gaṇṭhi bhinno, gahanaṃ agahanaṃ kataṃ, andhakāro āloko kato, bhaggā paravādā, jinaputtānaṃ cakkhuṃ uppādita"nti.
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“It is good, revered Nāgasena, the question has been well unravelled in a variety of ways; what was profound has been made clear; the knot is severed, the thicket made open, darkness made light; shattered are the tenets of others; vision has uprisen for the sons of the Conqueror.”
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‘Very good, Nāgasena! the problem has been well solved by variety of examples. The jungle has been made open, the darkness has been turned to light, the arguments of the adversaries have been broken down, insight has been awakened in the sons of the Conqueror.
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– Отлично, почтенный Нагасена! Поистине распутан вопрос многообразными доводами, вышло наружу бывшее в глубинах, разрублен узел, прорежена чащоба, осветились потемки, разбиты чужие наветы, раскрылись глаза сынов Победителя!
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Bhikkhusaṅghapariharaṇapañho sattamo.
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