| пали | John Kelly et al. - english
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N.K.G. Mendis - english
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Rhys Davids T.W. - english
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Парибок А.В. - русский
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Комментарии |
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3.Rājā āha "bhante nāgasena, yassa ñāṇaṃ uppannaṃ, tassa paññā uppannā"ti?
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The king asked: “Venerable Nāgasena, for one in whom knowledge has arisen, would wisdom also have arisen?”
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King Milinda said: “Revered Nāgasena, has wisdom arisen in him in whom knowledge has arisen?"
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The king said: ‘He who has intelligence, Nāgasena, has he also wisdom?’
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Царь молвил: «Почтенный Нагасена, у кого возникло знание, у того возникла и мудрость, не так ли?
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"Āma, mahārāja, yassa ñāṇaṃ uppannaṃ, tassa paññā uppannā"ti.
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“Yes, your majesty, for one in whom knowledge has arisen, wisdom also has arisen.”
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“Yes, sire, wisdom has arisen in him in whom knowledge has arisen.”
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‘Yes, great king.’
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– Да, государь. У кого возникло знание, у того возникла и мудрость.
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"Kiṃ, bhante, yaññeva ñāṇaṃ sā yeva paññā"ti?
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“What, venerable sir, is knowledge the same as wisdom?”
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“What, revered sir, is knowledge the same as wisdom?"
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‘What; are they both the same?’
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– Значит, почтенный, знание и мудрость – это одно и то же?
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"Āma, mahārāja, yaññeva ñāṇaṃ sā yeva paññā"ti.
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“Yes, your majesty, knowledge is the same as wisdom.”
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“Yes, sire, knowledge is the same as wisdom.”
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‘Yes.’
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– Да, государь, знание и мудрость – это одно и то же185.
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"Yassa pana, bhante, taññeva ñāṇaṃ sā yeva paññā uppannā, kiṃ sammuyheyya so, udāhu na sammuyheyyā"ti?
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“Then, venerable sir, for one in whom knowledge has arisen which is the same as wisdom, would he be confused or would he not be confused?”
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“But, revered sir, would he in whom knowledge, which is the same as wisdom, has arisen be bewildered or would he not be bewildered?"
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‘Then would he, with his intelligence—which, you say, is the same as wisdom—be still in bewilderment or not?’
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– А тот, у кого это возникло – будь это знанием или мудростью,– может ли в чем-либо заблуждаться?
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"Katthaci, mahārāja, sammuyheyya, katthaci na sammuyheyyā"ti.
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“He would be confused in some instances, your majesty, and would not be confused in other instances.”
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“He would be bewildered at some things, sire, at some he would not be bewildered.”
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‘In regard to some things, yes; in regard to others, no.’
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– В чем-то может, государь, в чем-то не может.
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"Kuhiṃ, bhante, sammuyheyyā"ti?
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“When, venerable sir, would he be confused?”
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“Where would he be bewildered, revered sir, where not?"
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‘What would he be in bewilderment about?’
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– В чем может заблуждаться, почтенный, в чем не может?
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"Aññātapubbesu vā, mahārāja, sippaṭṭhānesu, agatapubbāya vā disāya, assutapubbāya vā nāmapaññattiyā sammuyheyyā"ti.
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“He would be confused, your majesty, concerning those aspects of a craft that he did not know before, or those directions in which he has not gone before, or those names and designations he has not heard before.”
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“He would be bewildered, sire, in regard to those parts of the crafts that he did not already know, or in regard to those districts he had not already visited, or in regard to those names and designations he had not already heard.”
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‘He would still be in bewilderment as to those parts of learning he had not learnt, as to those countries he had not seen, and as to those names or terms he had not heard.’
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– Относительно неизвестных ему ранее навыков186, незнакомой прежде местности, не встречавшегося прежде имени или знака он может заблуждаться, государь.
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"Kuhiṃ na sammuyheyyā"ti?
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“When, venerable sir, would he not be confused?”
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“Where would he not be bewildered, revered sir?"
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‘And wherein would he not be in bewilderment?’
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– А в чем не может заблуждаться?
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"Yaṃ kho pana, mahārāja, tāya paññāya kataṃ 'anicca'nti vā 'dukkha'nti vā 'anattā'ti vā, tahiṃ na sammuyheyyā"ti.
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“He would not be confused, your majesty, concerning that which he has discerned by wisdom, that is, the notions of impermanent, suffering, and not self.”
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“In regard to that done through this wisdom, sire, namely, (the comprehension of) impermanence or suffering or not-self; here he would not be bewildered.”
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‘As regards that which has been accomplished by insight—(the perception, that is,) of the impermanence of all beings, of the suffering inherent in individuality, and of the non-existence of any soul.’
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– В том, государь, что произведено этой мудростью, то есть в том, что все это бренно, тяжко, без самости,– в этом он не может заблуждаться.
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"Moho panassa, bhante, kuhiṃ gacchatī"ti?
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“Then where, venerable sir, does his confusion go?”
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“But where, revered sir, does his delusion go?"
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‘Then what would have become of his delusions on those points.’
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– Куда же девается его заблуждение, почтенный?
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"Moho kho, mahārāja, ñāṇe uppannamatte tattheva nirujjhatī"ti.
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“Confusion ceases, your majesty, at that very moment when knowledge arises.”
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“Delusion, sire, ceases the very moment knowledge arises.”
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‘When intelligence has once arisen, that moment delusion has died away.’
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– Едва возникло знание, как заблуждение тотчас же исчезает, государь.
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"Opammaṃ karohī"ti.
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“Please give me an analogy.”
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“Make a simile.”
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‘Give me an illustration.’
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– Приведи пример.
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"Yathā, mahārāja, kocideva puriso andhakāragehe padīpaṃ āropeyya, tato andhakāro nirujjheyya, āloko pātubhaveyya.
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“Just as, your majesty, some person might bring in a lamp to a dark house, then the darkness ceases, and light appears.
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“It is as if, sire, some person might bring a lamp into a house. In consequence the darkness would cease and light appear.
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‘It is like the lamp, which when a man has brought into a darkened room, then the darkness would vanish away, and light would appear.’
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– Представь, государь, что некто установил в темном доме светильник. Тогда потемки исчезнут, появится свет.
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Evameva kho, mahārāja, ñāṇe uppannamatte moho tattheva nirujjhatī"ti.
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In the same way, your majesty, at the moment when knowledge arises, right there confusion ceases.”
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Even so, sire, delusion ceases the very moment knowledge arises.”
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Вот так же, государь, едва возникло знание, как заблуждение тотчас же исчезает.
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"Paññā pana, bhante, kuhiṃ gacchatī"ti?
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“Then where, venerable sir, does wisdom go?”
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“But where does wisdom go, revered sir?"
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‘And what, Nāgasena, on the other hand, has then become of his wisdom?’
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– Ну а куда, почтенный, мудрость девается?
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"Paññāpi kho, mahārāja, sakiccayaṃ katvā tattheva nirujjhati, yaṃ pana tāya paññāya kataṃ 'anicca'nti vā 'dukkha'nti vā 'anattā'ti vā, taṃ na nirujjhatī"ti.
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“Wisdom, your majesty, ceases right there having done its task, but that understood by wisdom, the notions of impermanent, suffering, and not self do not cease.”
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“Although wisdom, sire, ceases then and there when it has done its task, yet that which is done by means of this wisdom, namely, (the comprehension of) impermanence or suffering or not-self, that does not cease.”
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‘When the reasoning wisdom has effected that which it has to do, then the reasoning ceases to go on. But that which has been acquired by means of it remains—the knowledge, to wit, of the impermanence of every being, of the suffering inherent in individuality, and of the absence of any soul.’
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– Сделав свое дело, мудрость тотчас же исчезает, государь. Но то, что эта мудрость сделала, то есть постижение того, что все это бренно, тяжко, без самости,– это не исчезает.
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"Bhante nāgasena, yaṃ panetaṃ brūsi 'paññā sakiccayaṃ katvā tattheva nirujjhati, yaṃ pana tāya paññāya kataṃ 'anicca'nti vā 'dukkha'nti vā 'anattā'ti vā, taṃ na nirujjhatī'ti, tassa opammaṃ karohī"ti.
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“Venerable Nāgasena, what you have just said, ‘Wisdom ceases right there having done its task, but that understood by wisdom, the notions of impermanent, suffering, and not self do not cease,’ please make an analogy for that.”
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“Make a simile.”
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‘Give me an illustration, reverend Sir, of what you have last said.’
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– Почтенный Нагасена, по твоим словам, сделав свое дело, мудрость тотчас же исчезает, но то, что эта мудрость сделала, то есть постижение того, что все это бренно, тяжко, без самости,– это не исчезает. Приведи пример этому.
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"Yathā, mahārāja, yo koci puriso rattiṃ lekhaṃ pesetukāmo lekhakaṃ pakkosāpetvā padīpaṃ āropetvā lekhaṃ likhāpeyya, likhite pana lekhe padīpaṃ vijjhāpeyya, vijjhāpitepi padīpe lekhaṃ na vinasseyya.
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“Just as, your majesty, some person, wishing to send a letter at night, would summon a scribe and light a lamp, and have the letter written. Then, when the letter is written, he would extinguish the lamp. And when the lamp is extinguished the letter would not be destroyed.”
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“Sire, it is like a man who wants to send a letter during the night. After he has summoned a scribe and brought a lamp he makes him write the letter. But if he has the lamp put out after the letter has been written, the letter would not be lost because the lamp was put out.
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‘It is as when a man wants, during the night, to send a letter, and after having his clerk called, has a lamp lit, and gets the letter written. Then, when that has been done, he extinguishes the lamp. But though the lamp had been put out the writing would still be there.
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– Представь, государь, что некто хочет ночью отправить письмо. Он посылает за писцом, зажигает светильник, писец с его слов записывает письмо. А когда письмо уже написано, он тушит светильник. Письмо же не пропадет оттого, что светильник потушен?
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Evameva kho, mahārāja, paññā sakiccayaṃ katvā tattheva nirujjhati, yaṃ pana tāya paññāya kataṃ 'anicca'nti vā 'dukkha'nti vā 'anattā'ti vā, taṃ na nirujjhatī"ti.
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In the same way, your majesty, wisdom ceases right there having done its task, but that understood by wisdom, the notions of impermanent, suffering, and not self do not cease.”
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Even so, sire, though wisdom ceases as soon as it has done its task, yet that which is done by means of this wisdom, namely, (the comprehension of) impermanence or suffering or not-self, that does not cease.”
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Thus does reasoning cease, and knowledge remain.’
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Вот так же, государь, сделав свое дело, мудрость тотчас же исчезает, но то, что эта мудрость сделала, то есть постижение того, что все это бренно, тяжко, без самости,– это не исчезает.
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"Bhiyyo opammaṃ karohī"ti.
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“Give me another analogy.”
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‘Give me a further illustration.’
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– Приведи еще пример.
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"Yathā, mahārāja, puratthimesu janapadesu manussā anugharaṃ pañca pañca udakaghaṭakāni ṭhapenti ālimpanaṃ vijjhāpetuṃ, ghare paditte tāni pañca udakaghaṭakāni gharassūpari khipanti, tato aggi vijjhāyati, kiṃ nu kho, mahārāja, tesaṃ manussānaṃ evaṃ hoti 'puna tehi ghaṭehi ghaṭakiccaṃ karissāmā"'ti?
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“Just as, your majesty, people in the eastern districts might set up five water pots in each house so as to extinguish any burning, and when a house is on fire, they would throw these five pots of water on top of the house, then the fire would be extinguished. Would it occur to these people, your majesty, ‘We must make use of these pots again’?”
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‘In Eastern districts The peasants have a custom of arranging five pots full of water behind each hut with the object of putting out at once any spark of fire that may be kindled. Suppose now the house had caught fire, and they had thrown those five potfulls of water over the hut, and the fire had gone out, would those peasants then think of still going on using the water-pots?’
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– Например, государь, в восточных областях жители на случай пожара держат при каждом доме по пять кувшинов с водой. Если в доме начался пожар, они тушат его водою из этих пяти кувшинов. Скажи, государь, разве после этого нужно им будет опять брать кувшины и повторять все сначала?
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"Na hi, bhante, alaṃ tehi ghaṭehi, kiṃ tehi ghaṭehī"ti?
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“Certainly not, venerable sir, those pots have done their job, what further need would there be for them?”
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‘No, Sir, the water-pots would be done with. What would be the use of them (on that occasion) any more?’
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– Нет, почтенный. Им этих кувшинов хватило, ни к чему им больше кувшины.
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"Yathā, mahārāja, pañca udakaghaṭakāni, evaṃ pañcindriyāni daṭṭhabbāni saddhindriyaṃ vīriyindriyaṃ satindriyaṃ samādhindriyaṃ paññindriyaṃ.
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“As, your majesty, are the five pots of water, so the five faculties of faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration, and wisdom are to be seen.
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‘The five water-pots are the five organs of moral sense—faith, to wit, and perseverance in effort, and mindfulness, and meditation, and the reasoning wisdom.
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– Здесь, государь, кувшинам следует уподобить пять орудий: веру-орудие, усилие-орудие, памятование-орудие, сосредоточение-орудие, мудрость-орудие;
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Yathā te manussā, evaṃ yogāvacaro daṭṭhabbo.
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As those people, so the spiritual practitioner is to be seen.
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The peasantry are the recluse, who is devoted in effort ;
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жителям уподобить подвизающегося,
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Yathā aggi, evaṃ kilesā daṭṭhabbā.
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As the fire, so the defilements are to be seen.
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the fire is sinfulness.
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пожару уподобить аффекты.
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Yathā pañcahi udakaghaṭakehi aggi vijjhāpīyati, evaṃ pañcindriyehi kilesā vijjhāpiyanti, vijjhāpitāpi kilesā na puna sambhavanti.
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As the fire is extinguished by the five pots of water, so the defilements are extinguished by the five faculties, and those extinguished defilements do not arise again.
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As the fire is put out by the water in the five pots, so is sinfulness extinguished by the five organs of moral sense, and when once extinguished it does not again arise.’
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Как пожар гасится водою из пяти кувшинов, так аффекты гасятся пятью орудиями. Однажды погашенные, аффекты более не возникают.
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Evameva kho, mahārāja, paññā sakiccayaṃ katvā tattheva nirujjhati, yaṃ pana tāya paññāya kataṃ 'anicca'nti vā 'dukkha'nti vā 'anattā'ti vā, taṃ na nirujjhatī"ti.
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In the same way, your majesty, wisdom ceases right there having done its task, but that understood by wisdom, the notions of impermanent, suffering, and not self do not cease.”
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Вот так, государь, сделав свое дело, мудрость тотчас же исчезает, но то, что эта мудрость сделала, то есть постижение того, что все это бренно, тяжко, без самости,– это не исчезает.
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"Bhiyyo opammaṃ karohī"ti.
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“Give me another analogy.”
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‘Give me a further illustration.’
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– Приведи еще пример.
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"Yathā, mahārāja, vejjo pañcamūlabhesajjāni gahetvā gilānakaṃ upasaṅkamitvā tāni pañcamūlabhesajjāni pisitvā [piṃsitvā (sī. pī.)] gilānakaṃ pāyeyya, tehi ca dosā niddhameyyuṃ, kiṃ nu kho, mahārāja, tassa vejjassa evaṃ hoti 'puna tehi pañcamūlabhesajjehi bhesajjakiccaṃ karissāmī"'ti?
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“Just as, your majesty, a doctor, having taken the five root medicines and approached a sick person, might crush the five root medicines and get the sick person to drink them, and the sickness would disappear. Would it occur to that doctor, your majesty, ‘I will make use of the five root medicines again’?”
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‘It is like a physician who goes to the sick man with the five kinds of drugs made from medicinal roots, and grinding them up, gives him to drink, and thereby his sickness passes away. Would the physician in that case think of making any further use of the medicine?’
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– Например, государь, врач187 пришел к больному с пятью целебными кореньями, истолок пять этих целебных кореньев и дал больному выпить отвар. Этим болезнетворные начала будут изгнаны. Скажи, государь, разве нужно будет врачу брать целебные корни и повторять все сначала?
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"Na hi, bhante, alaṃ tehi pañcamūlabhesajjehi, kiṃ tehi pañcamūlabhesajjehī"ti?
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“Certainly not, venerable sir, those five root medicines have done their job, what further need would there be for them?”
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‘Certainly not, the medicine has done its work. What would be the use of any more?’
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– Нет, почтенный. Ему хватило этих кореньев, ни к чему ему больше коренья.
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"Yathā, mahārāja, pañcamūlabhesajjāni, evaṃ pañcindriyāni daṭṭhabbāni saddhindriyaṃ vīriyindriyaṃ satindriyaṃ samādhindriyaṃ paññindriyaṃ, yathā vejjo, evaṃ yogāvacaro daṭṭhabbo.
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“As, your majesty, are the five root medicines, so the five faculties of faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration, and wisdom are to be seen. As the doctor, so the spiritual practitioner is to be seen.
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– Здесь, государь, пяти целебным кореньям следует уподобить пять орудий: веру-орудие, усилие-орудие, памятование-орудие, сосредоточение-орудие, мудрость-орудие; врачу уподобить подвизающегося;
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Yathā byādhi, evaṃ kilesā daṭṭhabbā.
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As the disease, so the defilements are to be seen.
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болезни уподобить аффекты;
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Yathā byādhito puriso, evaṃ puthujjano daṭṭhabbo.
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As the sick person, so the common person is to be seen.
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болящему – человека-из-толпы.
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Yathā pañcamūlabhesajjehi gilānassa dosā niddhantā, dose niddhante gilāno arogo hoti, evaṃ pañcindriyehi kilesā niddhamīyanti, niddhamitā ca kilesā na puna sambhavanti.
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As the disease of the sick person is expelled by the five root medicines such that when the disease is expelled the sick person becomes well, so the defilements are expelled by the five faculties, and those expelled defilements do not arise again.
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Как пять целебных кореньев изгоняют болезнетворные начала, так и пять орудий изгоняют аффекты; однажды изгнанные, аффекты более не возникают.
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Evameva kho, mahārāja, paññā sakiccayaṃ katvā tattheva nirujjhati, yaṃ pana tāya paññāya kataṃ 'anicca'nti vā 'dukkha'nti vā 'anattā'ti vā, taṃ na nirujjhatī"ti.
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In the same way, your majesty, wisdom ceases right there having done its task, but that understood by wisdom, the notions of impermanent, suffering, and not self do not cease.”
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‘Just so, O king, when sinfulness is destroyed by the five moral powers, then reasoning ceases, but knowledge remains.’
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Вот так же, государь, сделав свое дело, мудрость тотчас же исчезает, но то, что эта мудрость сделала, то есть постижение того, что все это бренно, тяжко, без самости,– это не исчезает.
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"Bhiyyo opammaṃ karohī"ti.
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“Give me another analogy.”
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‘Give me a further illustration.’
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– Приведи еще пример.
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"Yathā, mahārāja, saṅgāmāvacaro yodho pañca kaṇḍāni gahetvā saṅgāmaṃ otareyya parasenaṃ vijetuṃ, so saṅgāmagato tāni pañca kaṇḍāni khipeyya, tehi ca parasenā bhijjeyya, kiṃ nu kho, mahārāja, tassa saṅgāmāvacarassa yodhassa evaṃ hoti 'puna tehi kaṇḍehi kaṇḍakiccaṃ karissāmī"'ti?
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“Just as, your majesty, a warrior, skilled in battle, having taken five arrows and entered into battle in order to defeat an opposing army, and gone into battle he might let fly those five arrows, and the opposing army is destroyed by them. Would it occur to that warrior, skilled in battle, your majesty, ‘I will make use of these five arrows again’?”
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‘It is like a warrior, at home in war, who takes five javelins and goes down to ‘battle to conquer the foe. And when he has cast them the enemy is broken. There is no need for him to go on casting javelins any more.’
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– Например, государь, опытный в схватках воин вышел с пятью дротиками на схватку с вражеским отрядом, стремясь к победе. В ходе схватки он метнул эти пять дротиков, и они поразили врагов. Скажи, государь, разве нужно будет этому опытному в схватках воину брать дротики и повторять все сначала?
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"Na hi, bhante, alaṃ tehi kaṇḍehi, kiṃ tehi kaṇḍehī"ti?
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“Certainly not, venerable sir, those five arrows have done their job, what further need would there be for them?”
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– Нет, почтенный. Ему хватило этих дротиков, ни к чему ему больше дротики.
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"Yathā, mahārāja, pañca kaṇḍāni, evaṃ pañcindriyāni daṭṭhabbāni saddhindriyaṃ vīriyindriyaṃ satindriyaṃ samādhindriyaṃ paññindriyaṃ.
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“As, your majesty, are the five arrows, so the five faculties of faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration, and wisdom are to be seen.
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– Здесь, государь, пяти дротикам следует уподобить пять орудий: веру-орудие, усилие-орудие, памятование-орудие, сосредоточение-орудие, мудрость-орудие;
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Yathā, mahārāja, saṅgāmāvacaro yodho, evaṃ yogāvacaro daṭṭhabbo.
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As the warrior, skilled in battle, so the spiritual practitioner is to be seen.
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опытному в схватках воину – подвизающегося,
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Yathā parasenā, evaṃ kilesā daṭṭhabbā.
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As the opposing army, so the defilements are to be seen.
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вражескому отряду – аффекты.
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Yathā pañcahi kaṇḍehi parasenā bhijjati, evaṃ pañcindriyehi kilesā bhijjanti, bhaggā ca kilesā na puna sambhavanti.
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As the opposing army is destroyed by the five arrows, so the defilements are destroyed by the five faculties, and those destroyed defilements do not arise again.
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Как пять дротиков поражают врагов, так пятью орудиями поражаются аффекты. Однажды пораженные, аффекты более не возникают.
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Evameva kho, mahārāja, paññā sakiccayaṃ katvā tattheva nirujjhati, yaṃ pana tāya paññāya kataṃ 'anicca'nti vā 'dukkha'nti vā 'anattā'ti vā, taṃ na nirujjhatī"ti.
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In the same way, your majesty, wisdom ceases right there having done its task, but that understood by wisdom, the notions of impermanent, suffering, and not self do not cease.”
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Вот так же, государь, сделав свое дело, мудрость тотчас же исчезает, но то, что эта мудрость сделала, то есть постижение того, что все это бренно, тяжко, без самости,– это не исчезает.
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"Kallosi, bhante nāgasenā"ti.
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“You are clever, venerable Nāgasena! ”
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“You are dexterous, revered Nāgasena.”
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‘Well put, Nāgasena!’
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– Прекрасно, почтенный Нагасена.
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Ñāṇapaññāpañho tatiyo.
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