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"'Yasmā ca kho, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, yasmiṃ vo samaye tibbo upakkamo hoti tibbaṃ padhānaṃ, tibbā tasmiṃ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyetha; yasmiṃ pana vo samaye na tibbo upakkamo hoti na tibbaṃ padhānaṃ, na tibbā tasmiṃ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyetha; te tumhe sāmaṃyeva opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vedayamānā avijjā aññāṇā sammohā vipaccetha – yaṃ kiñcāyaṃ purisapuggalo paṭisaṃvedeti sukhaṃ vā dukkhaṃ vā adukkhamasukhaṃ vā, sabbaṃ taṃ pubbekatahetu.
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15. '"But since, friend Niganthas, when there is intense exertion, intense striving, then you feel painful, racking, piercing feelings due to intense exertion, but when there is no intense exertion, no intense striving, then you do not feel painful, racking, piercing feelings due to intense exertion, you are therefore feeling only the painful, racking, piercing feelings of your selfimposed exertion, and it is through ignorance, unknowing, and delusion that you mistakenly hold: "Whatever this person feels...
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Evaṃvādīpi [evaṃvādīsupi (ka.)] kho ahaṃ, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhesu na kañci sahadhammikaṃ vādapaṭihāraṃ samanupassāmi.
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Speaking thus, bhikkhus, I did not see any legitimate defence of their position by the Niganthas.
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