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english - N.K.G. Mendis |
english - Rhys Davids T.W. |
русский - Парибок А.В. |
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10."Bhante nāgasena, 'nibbānaṃ nibbāna'nti yaṃ vadesi, sakkā pana tassa nibbānassa rūpaṃ vā saṇṭhānaṃ vā vayaṃ vā pamāṇaṃ vā opammena vā kāraṇena vā hetunā vā nayena vā upadassayitu"nti?
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King Milinda said: “Revered Nāgasena, you keep on talking about Nibbāna, but is it possible by simile or argument or cause or method to point out the shape or configuration or age or size of this Nibbāna?"
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‘Venerable Nāgasena, this Nirvāṇa that you are always talking of—can you make clear by metaphor, or explanation, or reason, or argument, the form, or figure, or duration, or measure of it?’
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Почтенный Нагасена, ты употребляешь слово «нирвана». Но можно ли описать очертания, или облик, или возраст, или размеры этой нирваны, исходя из какого-либо сравнения, довода, причины или основания?
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"Appaṭibhāgaṃ, mahārāja, nibbānaṃ, na sakkā nibbānassa rūpaṃ vā saṇṭhānaṃ vā vayaṃ vā pamāṇaṃ vā opammena vā kāraṇena vā hetunā vā nayena vā upadassayitu"nti.
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“Without a counterpart, sire, is Nibbāna, and it is not possible by simile or argument or cause or method to point out the shape or configuration or age or size of Nibbāna.”
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‘Nirvāṇa, O king, has nothing similar to it. By no metaphor, or explanation, or reason, or argument can its form, or figure, or duration, or measure be made clear.’
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– Нирвана ни с чем не сопоставима, государь, поэтому невозможно описать ни ее очертаний, ни облика, ни возраста, ни размеров, исходя из какого бы то ни было сравнения, довода, причины или основания.
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"Etampāhaṃ, bhante nāgasena, na sampaṭicchāmi, yaṃ atthidhammassa nibbānassa rūpaṃ vā saṇṭhānaṃ vā vayaṃ vā pamāṇaṃ vā opammena vā kāraṇena vā hetunā vā nayena vā apaññāpanaṃ, kāraṇena maṃ saññāpehī"ti.
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“But, revered Nāgasena, I do not agree to this not laying down by simile or argument or cause or method the shape or configuration or age or size of Nibbāna, which is a thing that exists. Convince me by a reason.”
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‘That I cannot believe, Nāgasena—that of Nirvāṇa, which really after all is a condition that exists, it should be so impossible in any way to make us understand either the form, or figure, or duration, or measure! Give me some explanation of this.’
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– Но нирвана же есть, почтенный Нагасена. Нет, я не согласен с невозможностью указать ее очертания, облик, возраст или размеры, исходя из какого бы то ни было сравнения, довода, причины или основания. Изволь мне это обосновать.
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"Hotu, mahārāja, kāraṇena taṃ saññāpessāmi.
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“Let it be, sire, I will convince you of this by a reason.
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‘Very well, O king, I will do so.
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– Хорошо, государь, я дам обоснование.
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Atthi, mahārāja, mahāsamuddo nāmā"ti?
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Is there, sire, what is called the great ocean?"
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Is there such a thing, O king, as the great ocean?’
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Скажи, государь, океан есть?
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"Āma, bhante, attheso mahāsamuddo"ti.
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“Yes, revered sir, there is this great ocean.”
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‘Yes, the ocean exists.’
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– Да, почтенный, есть океан.
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"Sace taṃ, mahārāja, koci evaṃ puccheyya 'kittakaṃ, mahārāja, mahāsamudde udakaṃ, kati pana te sattā, ye mahāsamudde paṭivasantī'ti, evaṃ puṭṭho tvaṃ, mahārāja, kinti tassa byākareyyāsī"ti?
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“But if someone asked you, sire, how much water was in the great ocean or how many beings live in the great ocean, would you, sire, on being questioned thus be able to answer him?"
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‘Well, suppose some one were to ask you, saying: “How much water is there, your majesty, in the sea, and how many are the creatures that dwell therein?” When that question had been put, how would you answer him?’
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– А если бы кто-нибудь, государь, спросил у тебя: «Сколько, государь, в океане воды? И сколько в океане обитателей? » Как бы ты ответил на подобный вопрос, государь?
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"Sace maṃ, bhante, koci evaṃ puccheyya 'kittakaṃ, mahārāja, mahāsamudde udakaṃ, kati pana te sattā, ye mahāsamudde paṭivasantī'ti, tamahaṃ, bhante, evaṃ vadeyyaṃ 'apucchitabbaṃ maṃ tvaṃ ambho purisa pucchasi, nesā pucchā kenaci pucchitabbā, ṭhapanīyo eso pañho.
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“No, revered sir, I would not be able to answer these questions and I would tell him: “My good man, these are not questions to be asked by anyone. They are to be put aside.
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‘I should reply thus to such a question: “My good fellow! this is an unaskable thing that you ask me. No one ought to ask such a question. It is a point that should be left alone.
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– Если бы кто-нибудь, почтенный, спросил меня: «Сколько, государь, в океане воды? И сколько в океане обитателей? » – то я бы вот что сказал, почтенный: «Не дело ты, человек, спрашиваешь. Так вопрос ставить вообще нельзя. Такие вопросы оставляют без ответа.
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Avibhatto lokakkhāyikehi mahāsamuddo, na sakkā mahāsamudde udakaṃ pariminituṃ sattā vā ye tattha vāsamupagatāti evāhaṃ bhante tassa paṭivacanaṃ dadeyya"'nti.
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The great ocean has not been analysed by natural scientists and it is not possible to estimate the amount of water in the great ocean or the number of beings living there.’ Thus would I, revered sir, make reply to him.”
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The physicists have never examined into the ocean in that way. And no one can measure the water there, or count the creatures who dwell therein.” Thus, Sir, should I make reply.’
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Знатоки мирских наук океана не исчисляли; невозможно измерить количество воды в океане или сосчитать населяющих его существ». Вот такой бы я ему дал ответ, почтенный.
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